I didnt ask you for the motive, I asked you whether they were American or not? It would seem you can't stick to your argument.

Lastly, it doesnt matter if it was racially motivated or what his motives were. Had it been for some slightly stricter gun laws he would not have been able to kill 33 people. End of story

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Firstly what has happened sucks and im truly sorry for anyone that has been affected by this tragedy.

secondly, im really suprised by Skulls views, using 9/11 as an argument for civilians having hand guns is just crazy, how did having a hand gun or not make any blind bit of difference? I can understand hunters and land owners etc, but a normal civilian has no need to have/carry a gun. This is just one of those things that by now is the norm for many people in the states but still just seems mental to people like myself as guns just arent a factor here, hell not even the majority of our police have them let alone anyone else.

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racist or not, they were still Americans. Also, I know there will always be guns out there but why not make them harder to obtain? This guy just went down to the local shop and paid a few hundred dollars and got his gun!

9/11 was an act of terrorism, not a rage of murder undertaken by a crazy man. I'd like to see him kill 33 ppl with a boxcutter.

Im sorry but you just fit the "crazy gun totting American" stereotype and I thank god you, and people like you, live thousands of miles away from me! Give me tight gun control anyday!



It's like pissing into the wind with these gun lobbyists. In all honesty I have given up, just wanted to get my point across. One of us sounds like a gun weilding maniac and one sounds like he is in search for a safer world. I'll let everyone out there make up their mind who is who.

I mean seriously, scroll through the dudes posts, he isnt the sharpest knife in the drawer and the US will trust HIM with a handgun

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I refer the jury to exhibit A

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I think Bondiguy & Skullzombie both made good points

its just pointless to even try to make any since of something that makes no sinceat all!!!

ya know what i mean?

but skulzombie

lets say everyone had guns or maybe just the teachers and say a student unarmed walked into a class to hide from the shooter and someone sht that person thinkng they were the shooter.....there more than likely would have been even more dead instead of the other way around it would have been like the shoot out at the ok coral or world war 3

theres no answer to this its just sad to even think why this happened

Why, what happened in Vermont? I've been around firearms for quite a few years being in the military. When I was a Marine, I wore a Colt .45 as a sidearm as part of my responsibilities. Because there was always alot of cash around, the Captain always wanted someone armed. Instead of assigning someone new every week, he asked me if I would just do it on a permanent basis. I agreed to. There were very few enlisted guys (except MPs) who wore a sidearm, so it was pretty unusual to be issued one. Anyway, my point is, that I always felt a little safer with that on my hip than I did when I wasn't wearing it. Anyone who sees a .45 pointing at them gets a real quick attitude adjustment. That handgun would go into you making a hole about the size of a dime and exit out your back with a hole about the size of a softball. It's got some stopping power. If anyone on that campus in Virginia had had a weapon, that crazy fuck might have been put out of his misery BEFORE he started his rampage. There are times when the use of deadly force is necessary, and if ever there was a right time, last week on that campus was it.

Well said

You think kids would learn.. my brother is at home today because there were threats made at his (my old) high school this week and they sent everyone home...

I live right next to a university, they had like three bomb threats in less than a month, a few months ago. Since the campus is in three different cities, and evidently, whoever called them in didn't specify which campus, they ALL had to be evacuated. There's just no way a school official can ignore or downplay these pranks. The sad thing is, it's only going to get worse.

I gotta say you and I agree on most things but my opinion differs here. Much respect to you for being in the military and I am sure that the security you feel with a gun was bourne from that service.

I still disagree with people just carrying guns around in places like schools? The sole purpose of a gun is to kill, so I dont see why anyone would need to carry one in a college?

If I gave the impression that I thought college kids should be carrying weapons, than I stand corrected. There is definitely a matter of training and responsibility inherent in carrying a firearm. It's more a matter of kill or be killed. It's really as basic as that. It's self-defense. Here's the gist of my thinking: When push comes to shove, when it's a situation where it's your life or your attackers, I want to have a way to defend myself. That's EXACTLY what happened on that campus. It was a rampage by a sick, crazy, sociopath. But, if you were one of the ultimate victims, don't you think you would have fared better if you were armed? If even one of those students had a way to protect themselves, my belief is fewer students would have been killed.. I'm no gun nut, but the world is proving itself to be a very violent place. I believe my life has a value, to me, that exceeds it's value to anybody else. Therefore, the protection I'm willing to provide myself, will, by definition, exceed whatever anyone else is willing to provide. I can wish, I can hope, I can vote and I can pray that someone else will be willing to protect my life by sacrificing theirs if the situation should arise. But I guess I just don't have that much faith. The ultimate protection of my life is solely mine. That can be a hard truth to swallow, but to ignore that reality is to ignore something that's pretty obvious.
A weapon is sort of like carrying adequate insurance. Probably 95 out of 100 people lose money on carrying life insurance. Does that mean that they wasted their money? No. The odds that you'll outlive your policy are offset by the chance that you'll die earlier than expected. A weapon is sort of an equalizer.
But, I can see why people don't want to see more guns on the street. People are impulsive and unpredictable. Drinking, drugs and mental illness can't be ignored when it comes to using deadly force. Simply because there is no room for error. People are impulsive; obviously we can't have anyone who wants to tote a gun around be allowed to.
I think it's very hard for the average person to imagine himself or herself in a life or death situation. It's extremely rare and extremely unpredictable. But so isn't hitting the lottery for hundreds of millions. But people DO win millions in the lottery and people DO find themselves in situations where their life is literally on the line. As much as we like to think that it'll never happen to us personally, that's what everyone who is a victim of a violent crime thinks. It's a sure bet that not one student out of the 33 that got massacred thought that was their last day on earth. Not one. Having the ultimate defense is the only defense in a situation like this. I can't see anything else being at all effective.

Edit.... PM for stuff like this ....

CM

Closeup, unlike skullzombie you provide a compelling argument and I totally understand every single point you made in your post. I guess sometimes I can be an idealist and think no guns would equal no gun related killings but I know that will never happen.

If I was being attacked and it was my life or theirs I would love to have a gun in my pocket but I guess I will never be that type of guy. We have murders in Australia but a massacre such as this one is extremely rare and I truly do attribute that to our strict gun laws. That was the point I was ultimately trying to make.

I would live comfortable in the knowledge that you had a firearm which is I guess a result of your rights, but unfortunately there are very few people like yourself in the world it would seem.

(fuck im deep today haha)

Hey, I agree. I'd be completely comfortable if there were no guns, owned by anyone. It's a situation in America that's got completely out of hand. It doesnt have a simply solution. Anyone who thinks it does, doesn't understand the problem. For some reason, the US is a very violent society. Like everyone, I've heard that it's TV or video games or too much sugar in soda. But what ever it is, it's here. And to ignore it or wish it wasn't so, is not a viable option. I truly wish I lived in a country that wasn't so bent on self-destruction as the United States seems to be. But this is where I am. And being the realist that I am, I'll always try to find a solution that is effective as opposed to politically correct or popular.
To put it bluntly, I have a concealed weapons permit. Where I live isn't high crime at all. But, when the situation calls for it, I'm not gonna be caught off guard. Like I said, I've had training in the uses of deadly force. I've NEVER had to pull my weapon, either in the military or otherwise. But, if my life were on the line, I also know that I'd have no hesitation. I can certainly respect the idea that most? people have -that guns equal violence. But they also equal protection. A weapon is neutral, neither good or evil. It's the human brain that displays those qualities.

touche, but even you will agree that the gun is finding itself in the hand of the evil far too often.

Once again to me, it is another world. I know not one person who owns a gun, not one friend, relative, neighbour or friend of a friend. So to me, the USA's fascination with the firearm amazes me, but like I said, I totally understand your points and views

No doubt, guns are defiantly owned and used by citizens that shouldn't have access to them. I think we'd both agree that, as far as the U.S. is concerned, the horse is already out of the barn. It's gotten so out of hand, protecting yourself isn't just a good idea, it's almost a case of naivety if you choose not to. Anyone who thinks that they won't ever be a victim of a violent crime is either an unrealistic optimist or foolhardy. Not matter what your belief system or upbringing or religion: bad things happen to good people. That's a fact that I think is almost too obvious to state. It's not a negative outlook or a pessimistic one. It's just the way things are. I think people ignore that fact to their own detriment. Being armed isn't being paranoid, it's hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. And yes, it does suck that this is what it's come to. When I do a moving job, I literally have everything a family owns in my van. If I got robbed of my truck, my insurance would cover most of the monetary costs, but there'd be a family that lost everything. And people have been killed for a lot less that what I have in that van. What a depressing subject. But it is what it is.